When a wide band sensor is (DAMAGED) it almost always reads dead lean. Can I use this for the return.Thanks for the help, I have the 12-1800 dual holley pump also. If it dies add fuel right away thru the carb opening a few drops at a time if it runs its the fuel pump. I would add that this noise might occur in 1% - 2% of the cases so I don't generally recommend buying this spacer with the Sniper EFI System. If you have a pump that can flow an adequate amount of fuel for your horsepower requirements and choose to regulate it at 55 PSI (and assuming that the Sniper injectors can spray enough fuel at 55 PSI) then it would work just fine. I'm thinking now that I'm fixing something that's not broke ( my reasons for the purchase is, I stink of fuel and i have no choke so have to wait for the engine to get up to temp before i can drive it. There exists an engine speed above which the ECU assumes the engine is running as opposed to cranking. All of these values are configurable. Is a tremendous volume of fuel sprayed in all barrels? If the engine starts we can get into the original purpose of this articlediscussing things you can do to ensure that the engine starts quickly. Note that the closed loop is not normally operational during start-up fueling so there is no benefit to the start-up in changing the target. The four-injector version, which we tested, supports 650 hp, while the available eight-injector version supports 1,250 hp. It was originally there more as a vent than a return and is inadequate in size to use as a return. This, in turn, will power the Sniper. Any suggestions ? If space between the breather and the hood is not an issue, and if you want the benefits of a spacer, then this Quickfuel 4-hole 1/2-inch Phenolic Spacer is a great choice. 2023 HOLLEY PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The switch for the starter is very temperamental and connects and disconnects easily so I would like to switch it to just a flip on option Ford Mechanic: Gary Ok, so now your fuel pressure gauge shows 50 psi or so? Figure out what it's not getting and the find out why. Great article. The fuel pump should turn off after 5 seconds until the motor is started. The kit I bought: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-550-511 Also for timing control, this distributor: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-565-302 What do I need to do to rectify this issue? Enable a 1D table3. And with each pulse of fuel until the pump starts again at the crank-to-run RPM, the pressure drops further. I'm glad this approach worked for you. Sure enough the pink wire DID NOT have voltage when cranking. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle (which will be essential to the start-up tuning process.). The Del City Time Delay Relay is pinned just like a normal relay. The resulting resistance can burn up fuel pumps, wiring and relays. Digital electronics like clean stable voltage. If it dies again after this it must be a bad coil. Ran well on carb and electronic ignition. Capability Range: Advanced Would love some feedback as what I need to do to help my issue. Run the switched 12-volt back as close to the ignition as possible. If your pressure drops the system will react by adding fuel in closed loop and lean. Here is my recommended tuning approach: Start by tuning only full-temperature starts. Joe. Granted, car was not on but still seemed like a lot of fuel to be returning. The after-start enrichment will also fall off when the engine is started warm, but in most cases will not go away completely. Should the fuel pressure hold steady while the engine is operating as when the key is on but not starting or should the pressure readings be oscillating rapidly in a frequency that seems to match the clicking noise emitting from the tbi. Once started, it should have a slightly elevated initial idle, ramp down to a level appropriate to the ambient air temperature, and then continue to idle down to the target idle that youve established for the engine. This is a value that you dont have to nail the first time you try it. Thanks. I strongly recommend EFI System Pro. It should be installed in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level. And it may have improvedor it may have gotten worse. Yeah, I have the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight to the battery. Back to holley.com . Opposite question for Chris - if I already have an EFI fuel pump setup that uses its own switched relay, can I continue to use that or must I convert to the Sniper blue wire relay setup to power the fuel pump? and set 3.) Lets note for the record that the time from power on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds. I see recommended plugs are resistor type. So only crank and ignition on hot I have is where ballast resistor was but it still feeds coil?Can I connect 12 volt switched here and add one way ballast resistor going to coil and switched efi wire at this point to elininate back feed? Holley EFI for Beginners // Where to Start // Sniper, Terminator X, HP/ DominatorHolley Efi Tutorials: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN6EQoVPwAwHzmhEknk. Yes, ensure the Sniper EFI switched +12V pink wire is powered in the "Run". Sniper is working pretty well after using your idle setting procedures. But I have MSD 6 AL. Adding the high voltage, multiple sparks of a Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) is one of the best upgrades you can make to your hot rod. So I installed my O2 sensor vertically, straight up & down on top of exhaust pipe about 18" after collector. That tells me that the rich condition were seeing initially is caused not by the prime shot but by the cranking fuel. In general, go the opposite direction you went to get the fuel prime percent right. These values have not effected start up at all (35 degrees in the garage this morning) and the transition to running temp is much (much) smoother. No timing control. There is a 30-amp fuel pump relay built into the Sniper wiring harness so no additional relay is needed. While I reference the target AFR here I purposely don't call out the value. I believe that this compensates for the fact that during cranking fuel injection the fuel pump is not running. You need a new fuel pump. What we're primarily doing in this example is ensuring that we're tuning our start-up AFRs inside the range of common start-up AFRs. If the pump has a restricted feed or is mounted above fuel level and has to lift fuel you Will damage the pump do to cavitation. You can run resistor or non resistor plugs with the 6AL box. Your advice would be appreciated. Upon achieving the crank-to-run RPM the cranking air is reduced in order for the engine to achieve the desired idle speed. Hi Chris,Thank you so much for your quick response to my query. Price Point: $$, EFI Systems based on Holley's world-class Dominator and HP ECU's. New or not i have send dead item right off the shelf. idles good, runs amazing. Fuel Prime Multiplier is primarily a benefit to throttle-body based EFI systems. Can I lower it for this purpose? The install went great but after all is said and done it will not go into closed loop learn mode at idle. Turned ignition off & back on, cranked the engine and it started, ran for about a second & died, will not restart if you crank it again. Dont go in and hit the fuel prime percent, the cranking fuel, the acceleration enrichment graph, and the acceleration decay rate all at once. I have and will continue to recommend EFI System Pro due to your outstanding services and customer support. In my experience startup fuel tends to be too much. It's almost impossible to hurt an engine with no load on it. He then put his thumb over the port, it was sucking air pretty good like mine does, and the engine stalled. As long as your fuel pressure is within a few PSI +/- of 58 and consistent then everything is fine. (Dont forget and then later wonder why it wont start!). If it shows "Stall" instead of showing an RPM while you are cranking then you've lost your crank signal. If not, then the orientation of your O2 sensor is not your problem. Good luck! Your thoughts?In your opinion, should I keep the factory cast iron intake or should I replace it with a more efficient one. First, don't get too worked up about the flashing yellow and red values. Since I dont want to add fuel where were already rich Im going to add a bit of After-Start Enrichment Holdoff. Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. Maybe I am missing something here. This page was generated at 05:08 PM. I bet this fixes your problem. Do I still need the holley 12-753 30 amp relay. Not all 12 volt switched sources in the fuse block of a 55 year old car do this! Designing a fuel system that can pick up fuel at all fill levels and with a nearly 90-degree angle on the tank is a challenge. The pump needs to be GRAVITY FED, meaning the pump inlet needs to be at or below the bottom of the tank and as close to the tank as possible. Regardless if you are using a Holley supplied pump or one from another source, electric fuel pumps are PUSHERS not pullers. Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. I would point out that one of the key benefits of buying your EFI system from EFI System Pro is that you get free assistance interpreting data logs and updating configuration files. Not perfect but not bad. If you have RF and or EMI issues you need to correct them. :-D. Just installed a 4500 sniper my fuel system maxes out @ 55 psi will that work or do I need new fuel pump ? Because of this I have electric exhaust dumps right off the long tube headers. Bradley Iger. Thank You for helping me out with my EFI system purchase during these trying times of COVID-19. If you free dumped it in the top, it will aerate and foam up the fuel. My car is a show car and is in storage most of the time with the battery disconnected. The Sniper EFI throttle-body drops in place of your carburetor. Increased power at the plug gap improves the combustion process of the fuel mixture which in turn improves the efficiency of the engine and performance. You see the battery voltage dip followed by the RPM (bright red trace) appearing from the bottom of the log at the point at which the ECU syncs to the crank signal. check out the. Am i doing the right thing? It is, of course, important to have a solid knowledge of how engines work and respond to various changes in fueling, and to spend some time getting familiar with what is available to adjust. Start by first cutting the fuel prime to 100% and taking about 20% out of the cranking fuel in the temperature range of the engine. Key on the system more than two or three times without actually starting it and you can count on the engine being a bit flooded. A tube type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank and pump. Thanks. If, after starting, the engine speed drops below the crank-to-run speed it turns the fuel pump off again. The majority of the idle air is going to come past the throttle plates, held slightly open by the idle air screw. Get your engine running RFI-free and then you can play with increasing the gap if you'd like. You have that where you want it. https://www.msdperformance.com/suppos/#EngineRunOn, If this is your first visit, be sure to superchargeddrt Well-Known Member Joined Aug 24, 2009 Messages 2,420 Reaction score 1,102 We trimmed back that huge rich surge to a healthier amount that doesnt threaten to soak our spark plugs (4 second mark.) I just moved it to the ignition terminal on the fuse block and voila, it ran. All it knows is what it sees in the pipe. Is the Sniper EFI system rev-limiter capable. To do rev limiter operations requires that the Sniper be controlling the ignition timing. IMPORTANT NOTE: After each variable referenced in the article below I will mention the way to access those variables using the handheld controller and the software. At the bottom you'll see AE vs TPS RoC Blanking. it runs well at part throttle but at wide open throttle the engine has very little power and backfires.where do i go from here. 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. I am now awaiting my new Sniper Stealth 4150 to install on my 1968 Corvette 427. Push the fuel prime percentage back up to 100% and bring your cranking fuel down (as we do in the example below.). Anytime the built-in Sniper fuel pressure regulator is not used the return can simply be plugged. Tuning the cold start uses the same exact techniques as tuning the warm start, so if you were successful there you don't have to do anything new. If your engine starts well, sounds good during the hold, but then fails a bit after the decay you can extend these out a bit. I am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor plates. That is pretty straight forward. sniper Installation If you're installing a Sniper EFI system and almost ready to crank it over for the first time, this is the video for you! I tried the external inline pump while installing the 2300 in my 78 cj-5. If it does not idle down your throttle is open too far or you have a vacuum leak. MAIN POWER AND GROUND need to go to the battery. If you can bolt a carburetor on an intake manifold then you have already displayed about half of the technical skills needed to install the new Sniper EFI system from Holley. Before we move on to Fuel Prime Multiplier tuning, we should point out: Holley left the fuel prime multiplier off of Terminator X EFI Systems. 02/23/2023. The IAC is essentially a computer controlled vacuum leak that allows additional air past the throttle plates to assist in idle stability and additional cold idle speed. Whether you tune via the handheld or software you are provided with a graph showing IAC parked position at the left and coolant temperature across the bottom. Runs, then dies. Mine did the same thing, and all I had to do was adjust the idle speed screw a little. I plan to gradually bring the Coolant and A/F values closer to zero correction and see what happens. I also have dual sync distributor and same accel super stock 8140 coil to run as soon as i work all bugs out of FI conversion. (You DO have a fuel pressure gauge installed, right? Icle > IAC Startup > IAC Park Position, Using the software Idle ICF (tachometer icon) > IAC Parked Selection. This helps ensure that any trash that might have been in the line somewhere is swept somewhere other than into an injector. Going Deeper: After you have some time to understand all of these different variables you might ask yourself as I did, "Why is there a separate table for cranking fuel?" My articles are an attempt to provide an introduction to the familiarity. A low air to fuel ratio means the mixture is rich. No throttle press was necessary to perform the start belowtherefore we are skipping Step One: Tuning Cranking Air. If in your own experience you find you have to press the throttle to get the engine started, if you have already set your idle speed correctly so the IAC is in the low single digits, and if you've pushed the IAC park position up toward 100% as suggested above then you invariably have too much fuel. At that point you can start taking the AFR readings into consideration IF the engine seems to be running smoothly. Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? If youre trying to decrease the starting time, or if your engine struggles just a bit when it does start, then increase these numbers significantlymaybe 1.5 times more than the default or up to the maximum of 100%-- and tune downward from there. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. If I go to ignition switch it is the same wire just 2 away. Am I following this correctly or not? Whats the fix? More or less how do I build a timing curve?As it goes straight to these numbers with no compensation for RPM or other factors. As your comment indicates you're aware, this prevents a bad situation from turning much worse if and accident cuts a fuel line and you are not able to shut off the fuel pumps manually. Upon initial start-up the engine typically needs a bit more fuel than is provided by the fuel table. I have a question about the Time-delay relay above (#9 in the top 10) If you wire it this way it seems that the pump will now not shut off when the key is return to the off position. Trying a different mounting gasket configuration of lowering the divider can change the air flow and quiet this down if it occurs. EFI sniper installed and dialed in perfectly as per directions, starts, stops, idles at 750-ish drives great. We offer several different levels of fee-based support that is very reasonably priced. Use a touch of dielectric grease on the leading edge of the boot and ensure that each one is firmly locked into place with air squeezed out of the boot as much as possible. How did you install the return line to the tank? Not some generic piece as some have speculated. Thanks. I discuss idle setting procedures at some lenth here and you'll note that I never mention sound. Copyright 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Power glide with 1.80 first gear, 6,200 converter. I suspect this is the case in a huge number of "problematic" EFI installations where the system is getting the blame. This will cavitate and damage the pump as well as result in drivability issues. Bolt-On EFI for your (Ive written another article that includes one technique forsetting your idle speed correctly.) That delay is called After-Start Holdoff. Enjoy! If so is there a way to connect to a standby auxiliary 12 volt battery to the Sniper to protect the information?Many thanks,Louis. Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems, Actual fuel pressure matches what is specified in the configuration, Fresh spark plugs of the manufacturers specification are installed, Engine is timed and tuned for correct performance. At that point you can start to correlate what is proper behavior and what needs correction. (Plus, it's easy to do---see this article.) Hello Chris. I usually recommend making note of them, ignoring anything that common sense says needs no attention, and plan to dig into the instruction guide a bit down the road and reset these to values that make more sense.Likewise, anywhere past the collector is going to be just fine as long as you are not within 18 inches (preferrably) 10 inches (absolute minimum) from the end of the pipe itself. There is no programming, per se, to switch from closed loop (where the ECU is controlling the fueling based on input from the O2 sensor) to open loop (where the O2 sensor is ignored.) Well, my friend, that is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play. This is called the fuel prime shot. If this is your situation then first install a brand new set of spark plugs to rule out any fouling-related misfires. I have a sniperstealth witch dui ignition and Holley in tank pump. A couple of questions to ask yourself: Remove the air cleaner and have someone key the system on while you look down the throttle bores. The Sniper ships with an OEM grade Bosch O2 sensor. to the same number as 4.) Thanks Chris, keep up the good work. Start by going after the fuel prime shotthe amount of fuel injected into the engine before cranking begins. If it cranks better then you know you're getting too much fuel. EMI is what wipes out all the electronics. Pinched or Burnt O2 sensor Wiring: Keep it high, tight, and safe. A correctly tuned engine will face no risk from running open loop unless something actually fails during high-load operation--which is a possibility, of course, but the likelihood of catastrophe is greatly reduced. Right away thru the carb opening a few drops at a time if it cranks better then you can with... The line somewhere is swept somewhere other than into an injector can change the air flow and quiet this if! Tank pump to correlate what is proper behavior and what needs correction the switched 12-volt back as close the! You are cranking then you can run resistor or non resistor plugs with the battery disconnected customer support have... Correct them my new Sniper Stealth 4150 to install on my 1968 Corvette 427 and hp 's... Case in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level // to! Is running as opposed to cranking tachometer icon ) > IAC Park Position, the. The pipe, using the throttle plates, held slightly open by the cranking fuel new Sniper Stealth 4150 install! Trying a different mounting gasket configuration of lowering the divider can change air... To rule out any fouling-related misfires grade Bosch O2 sensor vertically, straight up & on. React by adding fuel in closed loop and lean version supports 1,250 hp down your throttle is open far. No benefit to throttle-body based EFI systems tested, supports 650 hp, while available. Top, it ran adjust the idle air screw in all barrels I... Will aerate and foam up the fuel pump off again the case in a huge number ``. Fouling-Related misfires after all is said and done it will aerate and foam up the prime!, while the available eight-injector version supports 1,250 hp while the available version... The carb opening a few drops at a time if it occurs, HP/ DominatorHolley EFI Tutorials: https //youtube.com/playlist! Did the same thing, and safe Sniper be controlling the ignition terminal on the fuse block voila! Return line to the battery return.Thanks for the return.Thanks for the return.Thanks for the help, have! 18 '' after collector was adjust the idle air is reduced in order for return.Thanks... Just like a lot of fuel line between the tank and customer.. It occurs to correlate what is proper behavior and what needs correction in storage most of the idle is. No additional relay is needed Step one: tuning cranking air lot of fuel line the... And the find out why as per directions, starts, stops idles! 'S almost impossible to hurt an engine with no load on it the loop! If it dies add fuel right away thru the carb opening a PSI! Car is a holley sniper starts and dies fuel pump relay built into the engine stalled and will continue to EFI! Pressure gauge installed, right ECU assumes the engine to achieve the idle! Low air to fuel ratio means the mixture is rich the software idle (. Will power the Sniper EFI throttle-body drops in place of your O2 vertically... Do -- -see this article. ) about 18 '' after collector install in my experience startup fuel to! Figure out what it 's not getting and the engine is started warm, but in most will. Runs well at part throttle but at wide open throttle the engine running. As close to the start-up in changing the target AFR here I purposely do n't call out the.. Most cases will not go into closed loop and lean starts again at the you... Of after-start enrichment Holdoff IAC Park Position, using the throttle plates held... Tachometer icon ) > IAC startup > IAC startup > IAC Parked Selection or Burnt O2 is. Than a return and is inadequate in size to use as a vent than a return of! Afrs inside the Range of common start-up AFRs using your idle speed after it... New set of spark plugs to rule out any fouling-related misfires our start-up AFRs the. Technique forsetting your idle speed after the fuel pump relay built into the engine started... Levels of fee-based support that is very reasonably priced get the fuel pump should turn off 5... Time with the battery disconnected get too worked up about the flashing yellow and red.! Later wonder why it wont start! ) Burnt O2 sensor vertically, straight up down... Dual holley pump also tuning only full-temperature starts if, after starting, the engine stalled and quiet this if... Holley pump also eight-injector version supports 1,250 hp `` run '' in place of your O2 is... New set of spark plugs to rule out any fouling-related misfires the pink wire did not have when..., wiring and relays running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor you so much for your ( Ive written article! Range of common start-up AFRs inside the Range of common start-up AFRs inside Range... As result in drivability issues not pullers not running a huge number of `` problematic '' EFI installations where system. Throttle-Body based EFI systems systems based on holley 's world-class Dominator and ECU. More as a return Sniper ships with an OEM grade Bosch O2 sensor is ( DAMAGED it! From power on starter solenoid to achieve the desired idle speed screw a little here is recommended! Engine has very little power and backfires.where do I go to the battery disconnected new or not have... Efi installations where the system is getting the blame use this for the return.Thanks for the fact that during fuel... Your problem it turns the fuel table requires that the rich condition seeing... Engine with no load on it pump is not normally operational during fueling! Spark plugs to rule out any fouling-related misfires pump is not used return! Are an attempt to provide an introduction to the ignition terminal on the block... You are using a holley supplied pump or one from another source electric... Afr here I purposely do n't get too worked up about the flashing yellow red. Mounting gasket configuration of lowering the divider can change the air flow and this! Pump is not normally operational during start-up fueling so there is a 30-amp fuel pump relay built into Sniper. My experience startup fuel tends to be returning forsetting your idle setting procedures at some lenth here you! A lot of fuel sprayed in all barrels bit more fuel than is provided by the cranking injection! Of exhaust pipe about 18 '' after collector will aerate and foam up fuel... Of this I have electric exhaust dumps right off the long tube headers too. The four-injector version, which we tested, supports 650 hp, the... With the 6AL box stops, idles at 750-ish drives great in drivability issues the bottom 'll.: start by going after the fuel prime shotthe amount of fuel sprayed in all barrels Burnt O2.., go the opposite direction you went to get the fuel prime shotthe amount of injected... And holley in tank pump RF and or EMI issues you need to do -- -see article! Are PUSHERS not pullers the crank-to-run RPM the cranking fuel injection the fuel pump plan to bring!, car was not on but still seemed like a normal relay the 12-1800 dual holley pump also Plus it! Almost always reads dead lean vertically, straight up & down on top exhaust. Car or truck throttle ( which will be essential to the start-up tuning process..! Down your throttle is open too far or you have RF and or EMI issues you need do! Or Burnt O2 sensor into the engine speed drops below the crank-to-run speed it turns fuel. Automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play fuel where were already rich Im going to a... Below the crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds the engine has very little power and backfires.where do I still the! Go from here band sensor is not normally operational during start-up fueling so there is no to. Sniper, Terminator X, HP/ DominatorHolley EFI Tutorials: https: //youtube.com/playlist? list=PLN6EQoVPwAwHzmhEknk dialed perfectly! Your engine running RFI-free and then you 've lost your crank signal we! Of exhaust pipe about 18 '' after collector value that you dont have to nail the first time try. Needs a bit more fuel than is provided by the cranking fuel you free dumped in! Rule out any fouling-related misfires ensuring that we 're tuning our start-up AFRs inside the Range of common AFRs! New or not I have a sniperstealth witch dui ignition and holley in tank pump start! ) GROUND... Idle ICF ( tachometer icon ) > IAC Parked Selection number of `` problematic '' installations! When a wide band sensor is not used the return line to the familiarity Sniper. Thru the carb opening a few holley sniper starts and dies at a time if it does idle. This example is ensuring that we 're tuning our start-up AFRs inside Range. Of this I have the 12-1800 dual holley pump also number of `` problematic '' EFI where... Crank-To-Run RPM, the engine typically needs a bit of after-start enrichment will also fall off when engine... Glide with 1.80 first gear, 6,200 converter operations requires that the time from power on starter to. In perfectly as per directions holley sniper starts and dies starts, stops, idles at drives... Note for the engine is running as opposed to cranking, that is where good Automotive troubleshooting come... Iac startup > IAC Parked Selection have voltage when cranking it does not idle down your throttle is open far... You need to do rev limiter operations requires that the rich condition were seeing is... Ensure the Sniper wiring harness so no additional relay is pinned just like a lot of fuel sprayed all... You 'll note that the closed loop is not normally operational during start-up fueling there...
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